MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:29 am

i am going to blame it on your IR receiver. and not the AlternateMCEIRservice. because as you stated. it works fine with another receiver. the problem follows the receiver when it is used on another PC with a different version of Windows. so that rules out a Windows problem as well as a PC problem.
When following the correct logic for troubleshooting the finger gets pointed at the receiver for causing the problem. and not anything else.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:32 am

I will almost bet you what is taking place is the receiver is getting loaded after the service. and when the receiver gets loaded it passes a bunch of trash to Windows. and instead of Windows filtering the garbage it passes it right along to the service. which causes the service to get all goofed up.

I am willing to bet that if you delay the startup of the service it will operate fine.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by te36 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:47 am

My logic for blaming AlternateMceIrService is that the receiver works fine with the standard HIDservice. How is that not a persuasive argument ? ;-))

The fact that the problem with the IR receiver happens also on win7 only says that this is an old problem in AlternateMceIrService and not something that was introduced recently, e.g.: in the 0.5 timeframe, but in before.

As i said, i had experimented with manually starting AlternateMceIrService e.g.: some minutes after windows was completely booted, but the same problem still occurred, a.k.a: delaying does not help.

Initial garbage from the device confusing AlternateIrService is a good theory.

There are a bunch of Trace statements in the AlternateMceIrService source code, but i have no clue how to enable tracing in windows and where those traces would show up (eventvwr ? but how to enable traces...).

Oh well, i ordered another IR MCE receiver earlier, lets hope that one works better (Inteset).

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:00 am

OK first off let me get you past the name of the "Alternate" MCE IR Service.

it is not an alternate anything. all this service does is it registers a callback with a windows API function. and that callback gets called when an IR signal comes in. the service then forwards that information out a named pipe. That is all it does. there is no magic with it. Now if you receiver is sending out trash that the Windows HID service simply forwards to the callback. the problem is not with Windows and not with the Alternate service. the problem is the device that is doing something it is not supposed to be doing. that's like saying this computer will not read a memory card. and another computer will not read it either. so it must be the fault of the software on the computers.

There are a lot of other receivers out there. this plugin has been around for a really really long time and this is the first time I have read about this exact problem. where you have to stand on your head twirl about a few times and then it starts working. I am sorry but with 100 other receivers working fine and only this one is not. it is a problem with the receiver and not with the service. I am not going to rewrite the service in order to work around the problem of a single malfunctioning device.


if you had told me that you were going to get a new one I would have told you which one to get. as it works the best as far as range and functionality.

it would be this one. the remote is crappy but the receiver is great. but who really cares about the remote. you can use any remote you want.

https://www.amazon.com/Pinnacle-Remote- ... 50TBJ65F5E
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:06 am

also from my reading the Inteset remotes are NOT Windows MCE remotes. It is an MCE compatible remote, which means it will send IR codes that are compatible with Windows But the receiver is not included with the remote. it is a separate purchase.

https://intesettech.com/index.php/produ ... g-bracket/
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by te36 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:48 am

Not sure how much longer you want to humor me arguing about the degree of brokenness of that one IR receiver given how i've already given up on it. SO just in case you like to continue the argument: If the windows HID service can deal with whatever brokenness comes from the device via the windows driver, why can't AlternateMcIrService/EG not ?

My reference for brokenness btw is another remote with keyboard and gyro mouse that looked seemed to work nice with just windows HID kbd/mouse, but that i had to re-plug several times a day because the windows kbd/mouse driver was regularily giving up on it. With that as a reference, this IR receiver is pretty good ;-)

Thanks for the recommendation for the pinnacle kit. Looks like good price/value, but this is actually for travel kit, and the pinnace looks sized like my gateway IR, half the size of my hotel kodi pc (byte3 mini pc).

I have ordered this IR receiver:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J5NRWFO

"Uses Microsoft eHome drivers, Drivers are native for W7 & W8 but must be loaded on W10."

The eHome driver is AFAIK the driver for the MCE remotes, at least thats whats i pasted into my prior post as the MS driver being used. I am curious about the W10 note though. I didn't have to do anythng special to have that driver on W10.

The internal version of that inteset receiver you sent does look interesting too because i would like to put the IR receiver into the win7 PC to get rid of the external gateway IR receiver box.

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:31 am

you can put the IR receiver inside any PC. it does not matter. the reason the pinnacle is a larger receiver is for 2 reasons. the first being is that you can connect 2 blasters to it. the second is that it contains a we bit more logic to handle every single IR code I have thrown at it. to date I have not come across one that it does not handle. it receives the Samsung 36bit (might be 38 bit can't remember off the top of my head) without issue, from my understanding that is the protocol that a lot of receivers/software has issues dealing with. It also has great filtering of ambient IR noise so for the most part the IR codes received are correct.

I used the pinnacle receiver to capture a Samsung 36-38 bit code. then had EG convert it into a raw pronto code. I fed that code into a Library that I helped develop for Arduino micro controllers that would blast pronto codes. and it worked without a hitch.

the pinnacle receiver is 3/4" high x 2" wide x 2 1/4" deep (19mm x 50mm x 57mm) so it's actually pretty small.

for mounting a receiver inside of a case.. cables like these are made. the one below would work for the pinnacle receiver.
https://www.amazon.com/SIIG-B-Type-5-Pi ... B00BYC0KU8

as far as mounting inside the case that is pretty simple actually. if you own a Dremel tool and some needle files to cut the opening in the front of the case, drive knockout is always the best place. easily fixed. and if you are sloppy when cutting and the hole looks like hell you take the receiver and wrap it up in blue painters tape push it into the messed up hole you made. and fill the opening right into the receiver with bondo. once the bondo hardens pull the receiver out. if the tape gets stuck in the bondo just peel it out or cut it. grab some sand paper and sand the bondo down use 2000 grit for your final sand. and paint the front of the case or the knockout whatever color you want. I found that Black Appliance Epoxy in a spray can works fantastic. It has a nice gloss finish and it's hard as hell to scratch.

another trick you can do is grab a small piece of lexan (plexiglass) probably 1/4" thick at a minimum cut it to the same shape as a knockout if the knockout is curved that is easult dealt with by hating the lexan up with a lighter (keep the flame moving) and bend it once it is hot. you can then either apply a piece of automotive window tint to it. or if you use a can of flat black spray paint spray almost straight up about 2 feet above the lexan (you will be spraying away from the lexan) do this slowly and check the lexan a few times for coverage. you want to have a smoked look and "overspray" will give this effect don't make it too dark we do not want to block the IR. if you go this route a lot of receivers will have a smoked lens on them you will need to remove the lens otherwise it will have issues seeing the IR. Oh if you do the window tint. get a light shade to it. you can always apply the tint on top of one another to make it darker also buy the cheapest tint you can find as the cheapest will not have great UV blocking ability if any at all. UV = IR
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:32 am

I did want to mention. that pinnacle remote and receiver has been made for almost 15 years. and has not changed. it is exactly the same. no reason to change what works. the one that I have is close to that 15 years and it still works perfect. remote and receiver.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by te36 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:35 pm

Hate to see such good insight to be burried deep inside some random thread. Would be nice to have a sub-forum called product review or the likeso that there could be topics around specific product, such as the pinnacle. Maybe just expand on this in the explanation of the "show your setup"...

The first receiver i used was the simple IR sensor directly on serial port running under lirc with linux (early 2000'th). I assume this is still the reference for the most universal IR receiver. Alas, this model does not translate into USB and maybe not even into serial port on windows because you loose the accurate timing. Never tried lirc on windows, so no real insight. There have been in the past a range of USB IR receivers that claimed to be universal, but i never tried. Definitely very useful to have one that actually achieves that goal.

Does the pinnacle use the MSFT eHome driver or come with its own driver ? I've never tried to understand the windows infra, i always thought MCE was really just one set of RF5 and later RC6 commands and the software would only process those commands. So i was nicely suprised yesterday to see AlternatveMceIrService pass through a couple of other commands from other remotes. I never played around with that in the past. What is the format of codes that are signalled from the drivers that AlternateMceIrService connects to ?

Having said all this, my more generic problem is the lack of a good universal programmable IR remote. I have the harmony 650, but like all the other programmable remotes i tried they only support code selection from a library or learning via IR. Both of which suck. learning from IR often results in more complex/slower learned codes and depends on availability of an original remote and finding code from a library has so often not worked for me because of all the crazy devices i used.

So i'd really be in the market for a remote that i could program by programming the bitsequence/timing of the actual codes. Which i think would very likely be what i can do with an MCE remote that has blasters. Like the Pinnacle. I just want it as a remote, not as something connected to a PC ;-))

Hopefully the forum admin will not kick me for going totally off topic ;-)

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by jachin99 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:24 pm

I agree that the harmony profiles can cause a lot of confusion, and I have seen several examples of that in the past. I grabbed a used harmony a while back off of ebay just to try it out, and because I was forced to used their setup wizard the remote sits in a drawer. Regardless of that I DID discover the most complete codeset to use for Windows Media Center compatibility. The best codeset during device setup is...

Code: Select all

Device type: Computer -> Media Center PC
Manufacturer: Microsoft
Model: Windows Media Center SE


To add to the confusion there are plenty of other options, including a XBOX 360 profile. I think there are two or three other generic HTPC profiles, and I don't believe logitech ever specifies that these codes are for RC5 on XP, and these other codes are for RC6 on vista and later. Use the code I cited on your harmony, and as long as everything else is setup correctly I bet it works fine.

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:45 am

@te36

This is the remote you want then.

as far as remotes go.. this one is the best one i have found thus far.

https://www.amazon.com/One-All-OARUSB04 ... B00HNIHM5S

with no batteries in it, it weighs more then a remote of the same size with the batteries.
You can tell it is a super solid construction. it has backlit keys.

now the real + on this remote is this. It has a USB port on it (like most remotes do these days) and you are supposed to use their software to program the thing. But.. the protocol that is used over the USB is called JP1 if i remember correctly.

There is a little java program called Remote Master that can access this remote. an you can do a whole SLEW of things. like program one button to spit out a Sony code. and another button to spit out an NEC code. without changing the source.

so this remote has a total of 41 buttons and 4 device buttons. using that software you can make it so that each of the 41 buttons can hold 2 different ir codes. one for a short press and one for a long press. so now you have 41 buttons x 2 = 82 buttons x 4 devices = 328 buttons. You can also program the remote to do macros. so if you long press the power button it will do a full system on and it will spit out codes for each of the devices you have. I also believe you can program in a shift key that will give you a whole other set of codes on top of that.

The best part is... it's CHEAP!
the actual company that makes OneforAll remotes is URC (Universal Remote Control) which is one of the companies that makes high end remotes. And they didn't change how they make remotes because this one is cheap. it is built in the same manner that they do for their 2000.00USD remotes.

and you are not limited to the already made IR protocols. you can design. your own protocol if you like and use that. if you couple this remote with the pinnacle receiver. it's a win win thing. because the pinnacle will handle any IR code I have used thus far.




To answer your question about the EHome drivers.. yes the pinnacle does use the EHome drivers. The EHome driver is designed to not care about what it receives (as we already know because of your malfunctioning receiver). it will pass it right along. if a code is not working then it is always going to be the fault of the receiver. The receiver has to be designed to listen (look) for IR flashing at different modulation (frequency). I think the pinnacle is not designed with a narrow focus on only a few. I think it simply looks at all high frequency pulses. It acts much like the EHome driver in that respect. It doesn't care what it sees it just passes it along.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:54 am

logitech remotes suck. they always break.you can tell they are built like crap when you pick the thing up. and their software is a nightmare. it is a mess. along with that repository of 1/2 non working user added IR codes.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:56 am

and no we are still on topic here... first step. figure out problem. second step find best solution. we are in step 2. finding the best solution for you problem.
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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by te36 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:14 am

Yes, in my place in germany i am using the URC-6430, but that backlit model is even cheaper here in the US. Should probably get a one or two. They don't show up on www.oneforall.com anymore, so they may be out of production.

Not even sure i would need the backlight, they are ergonomic enough that i know the keys in the dark. But definitely cool.

I do not know remote master, so with the software from oneforall, they shared the problem i described above: I had to figure out which code-number was the best one to drive the IR receiver. I am using a few RPI with "serial" USB receiver, so i could also choose various receiver codesets and had to search quite a while to find the best combination (autorepeat, short codes that react quickly etc. pp.). Not sure if Remote Master makes it easier.

Besides the ergonomics, build and flexibility, the best feature IMHO is that they can mount just as storage via USB and you can backup and restore the whole config as a simple file. That gives peace of mind if something breaks. Only issue i had was that its not working with USB on linux, just windows/mac *sigh*. Maybe that model you point to has newer/better firmware.

For non-geeky family members, the display of the harmony and the custom labels make it easier to use. And better macro capabilities for more buttons. So better for home theater with projector and receiver etc.

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Re: MCE remote plugin on windows 10 only working run-as-admin

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:42 pm

well see this is where EG Shines I have 4 of these remotes. and every remote uses the exact same cod set. but every remote controls every device in the house. I use Aurdino's that I have setup as IR receivers and blasters. and they send the codes into EG. because when the code gets sent into EG the IP of the Arduino is attached to thee message so now I know what location the code is generated from and therefore which devices to control. every device in my house is connected to a single EventGhost. So I can walk from room to room with my remote and it automatically changes what it can control.
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