Admin Rights At Login

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upsidedown
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Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:46 am

Hi I'm a new user and have searched for an answer to fix my issue but I haven't been able to find one.

The problem I'm having is what I believe to be based around the admin rights of EventGhost when started automatically by EventGhost when logging in.

I'm using the F10 key to close program windows by emulating the Alt+F4 keypress which I'm finding more reliable than the EventGhost commands.

When I start EventGhost automatically on login the F10 key closes all windows (and logs correctly in EventGhost) EXCEPT when I have the Norton AV window open. When I have this window open it appears as though EventGhost ignores any keypresses even when I press Alt+F4 manually to close the Norton AV window (see below for log)

15:03:02 Main.OnInit
15:03:02 Main.OnInitAfterBoot
15:03:21 Task.Activated.Desktop
15:03:28 Task.Created.NortonSecurity
15:03:28 Task.NewWindow.NortonSecurity
15:03:28 Task.Deactivated.Desktop
15:03:28 Task.Activated.NortonSecurity
This is where I press F10 but no log response from EventGhost
This is where I press Alt+F4 to close Norton

15:03:38 Task.Deactivated.NortonSecurity
15:03:38 Task.ClosedWindow.NortonSecurity
15:03:38 Task.Destroyed.NortonSecurity
15:03:38 Task.Activated.Desktop
15:03:43 Task.Created.EventGhost
15:03:43 Task.NewWindow.EventGhost
15:03:43 Task.Deactivated.Desktop
15:03:43 Task.Activated.EventGhost

If I close and restart EventGhost manually with the Admin rights option ticked then everything works as expected (see below for log)

14:58:50 Main.OnInit
14:58:56 Task.Activated.Desktop
14:59:01 Task.Deactivated.Desktop
14:59:01 Task.Activated.EventGhost
14:59:02 Task.Created.NortonSecurity
14:59:02 Task.NewWindow.NortonSecurity
14:59:02 Task.Deactivated.EventGhost
14:59:02 Task.Activated.NortonSecurity
14:59:06 Keyboard.F10
14:59:06 Close Active Windows
14:59:06 Find frontmost window
14:59:06 Emulate Keystrokes: {Alt+F4}
14:59:06 Task.Deactivated.NortonSecurity
14:59:06 Task.ClosedWindow.NortonSecurity
14:59:06 Task.Destroyed.NortonSecurity
14:59:06 Task.Activated.EventGhost

If I then close and restart EventGhost manually without the Admin rights option ticked it then behaves like the automatic startup option and the F10 key is once again ignored (as per the first log)

This is the build

Software
Program Version: 0.4.1.r1722
Build Time: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:20:52
Python Version: Stackless Python 2.6.5 final 0
wxPython Version: 2.8.12.1

System
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Unknown OS 6.2 (Unknown Edition 101), 64-bit (build 9200)
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-3220 CPU @ 3.30GHz
RAM: 4033 MB

USB-Devices
USB Composite Device: USB\VID_04CA&PID_0058
USB Input Device: USB\VID_04CA&PID_0058&MI_00
USB Input Device: USB\VID_04CA&PID_0058&MI_01
USB Input Device: USB\VID_04CA&PID_0058&MI_02
Bluetooth USB Module: USB\VID_04CA&PID_3006
Realtek USB 2.0 Card Reader: USB\VID_0BDA&PID_0129
Generic USB Hub: USB\VID_8087&PID_0024

So it looks at least to me that my problem is being caused by EventGhost not having proper Admin rights on Auto start

Are there any straightforward options to fix this

Thanks

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kgschlosser
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:17 am

ok I need clarification on exactly what you are wanting EventGhost to do. It sounds like you are wanting EventGhost to remap Alt+F4 to the F10 key. Is this correct?

Antivirus programs do not play nice with programs that have keyboard hooks. a keyboard hook is asking Windows to tell a program when a key is pressed. Doing this has been used many times in a malicious way, to capture passwords and what have you. so an antivirus program is going to block those kinds of thing.
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upsidedown
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:17 am

kgschlosser wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:17 am
ok I need clarification on exactly what you are wanting EventGhost to do. It sounds like you are wanting EventGhost to remap Alt+F4 to the F10 key. Is this correct?
Yes that is correct and I have it mapped ok

It all works ok with the normal EventGhost startup at login on all open windows EXCEPT when I open the Norton AV shortcut to bring up the Norton menu. Then the F10 key won't close this Norton window because EventGhost is not seeing the F10 keypress or any keypress (logs in first post)

If I close EventGhost and restart EventGhost from the shortcut with the admin priviledges ticked then EventGhost will see the F10 keypress and close the Norton window (logs in first post)

So yes as you said (and I can confirm) that having the Norton window open blocks EventGhost from seeing keypresses (logs in first post) BUT why only when running on startup at login and not when running under admin priviledges from the shorcut

Thanks

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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:48 am

well that would make perfect sense. Norton is not going to block what an administrator is trying to do because they are the administrator!
This is an issue caused by an external application that we have no way to work around from inside of EG. However you can change the settings in Norton so it will ignore what EventGhost is doing no matter what user is logged in.
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upsidedown
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:53 am

kgschlosser wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:48 am
well that would make perfect sense. Norton is not going to block what an administrator is trying to do because they are the administrator!
This is an issue caused by an external application that we have no way to work around from inside of EG. However you can change the settings in Norton so it will ignore what EventGhost is doing no matter what user is logged in.
Ok I will look at Norton's settings

Would I be correct in saying that EventGhost can't be started automatically at login with administrator privileges. It can only be done via the shortcut with admin priveleges selected?

Thanks

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kgschlosser
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:08 am

It can be started with administrative privileges at login. The thing is you are going to have to click the OK for starting the application as administrator. I believe there is a way to disable that dialog from appearing, I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head.

This is how you enable running EventGhost as an administrator during startup.


Start --> Programs --> Startup

Right click on the EventGhost icon and in the menu click on properties.
On the "Shortcut" tab there is a button labeled "Advanced", click on that.

You will see the option to check off for running it as administrator. Check it off. then click Apply and then OK.
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upsidedown
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:57 am

Thanks kgschlosser for what I'm sure is your valuable time in replying to my post

I followed your advice in how to start EG at startup in Admin mode on my Admin user account

Unfortunately I didn't get the results I was expecting. In my case EG wouldn't even load with it set to startup in Admin mode but it loads ok when just set to start as normal?

I disabled the AntiVirus protection as well but this did not make any difference

I'm happy enough to just run EG as normal but it is a bit strange as to why it wouldn't load in the other config. Do you know why this might be happening?

Thanks

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kgschlosser
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:45 am

I do not know what you mean by not the results you were expecting. If you can elaborate on that some I should be able to help.
I disabled the AntiVirus protection as well
OK so now I am not understanding the problem in it's entirety. Your original problem was that EG would not log keystrokes only when you have your antivirus program in the forground unless you ran EventGhost as an administrator, This lead me to believe that you had no issues with any other application being in the foreground and that you did not have to have eventghost running as an administrator.

If you disabled your virus scanner then there would not be an issue because it is disabled and there would be no reason to have it opened up and in the foreground.

Maybe I need better clarification on what the actual problem is.
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kgschlosser
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:57 am

If your problem only exists with Norton Then it is how Norton is written.

Windows has a notification system, this system notifies applications of various things that take place. one of those things is key presses. Windows is going to go down the ZOrder and tell each application what the key press is. The ZOrder is the order of the windows from top to bottom, top being the one that is in the foreground.

There are responses to these notifications that are given back to windows. Typically a 1 or a 0, with the case of key presses a 1 means to notify the next window in the ZOrder and a 0 means to stop the notifications for that key press. It is pretty evident that Norton is not allowing the keystrokes to pass. This is not an EG problem. This is a problem caused by another application. It's that application that needs to have the problem corrected, In this case there is no correction to be made in that application because the application is intentionally made that way. Norton is set up like this so no other program malicious or not can control Norton in any way. There is no way for me to fix this problem. The best I can attempt to do is to work around the problem. There is no 100% guarantee this is going to work correctly either because of how Windows deals with UAC

The only possible solution is to run EventGhost as an administrator all the time. and doing this has it's own set of snafus that need to be understood so EG will load save files and config data properly.
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upsidedown
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:38 am

kgschlosser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:45 am
I do not know what you mean by not the results you were expecting. If you can elaborate on that some I should be able to help.
Ok so let me try and clarify

Originally I had a problem with being able to close the Norton AV window as you said

Let's now forget about Norton as that has been completely removed so I don't have that problem

The last issue I had is about being able to start EG in Admin mode from startup as per your instruction. It is starting in an Admin account.

If I follow that instruction then EG will not start at all

It starts ok when set for a normal start but not when set to start in Admin mode at startup

Do you know why?

Thanks

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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 pm

OK so if you have removed Norton your original issue with the Key strokes not getting logged no longer exists, so starting EG as an Administrator at startup is irreverent. See where I am coming from? The whole reason for starting EG as an Administrator was so that it could deal with the Norton issue.

What I am getting at is that Starting EG as an administrator at system startup is not a wise thing to do and should be avoided if possible. With your problem It may have only offered a band aide solution in an attempt to circumvent an issue in the design of another program. This is a band-aid type of fix, and what eventually happens to band-aides? They fall off. The proper solution is to locate a virus scanner that does not do what Norton does.

I do not have a virus scanner on my machine that runs all the time. Nor do I have Windows Firewall, Windows defender or any other Windows type of protection. The best virus scanner is a good education and a simple little plugin for your web browser.

Install a plugin into your web browser called UBlock Origin, if that one is not available then AdBlock Plus is another you can use in it's place. Every few months I run a program called MalwareBytes. This program removes any trackers and junk that you can get from websites that the AdBlocker may have missed. Now this is the education. When browsing the web look before you click. If you hover the mouse over a link you will be shown where the link goes. This gets displayed at the bottom of the browser. If you do not see http: / / something_that_you_can_understand.com where the first portion of the URL is not a jumble of letters then chances are it is a safer address. If it is a jumble of letters that make no sense DO NOT CLICK ON IT. I have told people to use this exact same method for at least 15 years.

People that would have to take their computers to be cleaned or to have windows reinstalled at least once a year shelling out 100-150 each time no longer have to have that done after they bring their PC to me to be cleaned and I give them this education afterwards. I install those 2 programs after I get the PC all sorted out and then I explain the whole link thing to them. It is simply amazing how many people no longer have PC's infected with all kinds of garbage.

Malware Bytes when you install it is going to run "realtime" scans. Turn all of this off in the program and also turn off it loading at startup. This is not needed. we want to run a scan when we need to run a scan, not all the time.
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upsidedown
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:13 am

Thanks for your detailed and helpful reply
kgschlosser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 pm
OK so if you have removed Norton your original issue with the Key strokes not getting logged no longer exists, so starting EG as an Administrator at startup is irrelevant
100% agree this is now a non issue
kgschlosser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 pm
What I am getting at is that Starting EG as an administrator at system startup is not a wise thing to do and should be avoided if possible
Good to know this type of info
kgschlosser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 pm
I do not have a virus scanner on my machine that runs all the time. Nor do I have Windows Firewall, Windows defender or any other Windows type of protection. The best virus scanner is a good education and a simple little plugin for your web browser.

Install a plugin into your web browser called UBlock Origin, if that one is not available then AdBlock Plus is another you can use in it's place. Every few months I run a program called MalwareBytes. This program removes any trackers and junk that you can get from websites that the AdBlocker may have missed. Now this is the education. When browsing the web look before you click. If you hover the mouse over a link you will be shown where the link goes. This gets displayed at the bottom of the browser. If you do not see http: / / something_that_you_can_understand.com where the first portion of the URL is not a jumble of letters then chances are it is a safer address. If it is a jumble of letters that make no sense DO NOT CLICK ON IT. I have told people to use this exact same method for at least 15 years.

People that would have to take their computers to be cleaned or to have windows reinstalled at least once a year shelling out 100-150 each time no longer have to have that done after they bring their PC to me to be cleaned and I give them this education afterwards. I install those 2 programs after I get the PC all sorted out and then I explain the whole link thing to them. It is simply amazing how many people no longer have PC's infected with all kinds of garbage.

Malware Bytes when you install it is going to run "realtime" scans. Turn all of this off in the program and also turn off it loading at startup. This is not needed. we want to run a scan when we need to run a scan, not all the time.
That is very good logic. I will still run an AV and firewall only to try and prevent me from doing something stupid. I already have an Adblocker and Malwarebytes setup as you suggested so I guess I'm somewhat sensible. I must be doing something right as no viruses over the more than 20 years I've been using a computer.

All the best

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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:57 am

Hey no worries. If there was a way to make it work without compromising security I would tell you. Anti virus programs are kind of a bullshit program, the best way to keep your system from getting a virus is to not download and install one LOL. basically don't answer the door when it comes a knocking. If you don't open the door then there is no virus issue. This is where "looking before you leap" comes into play. know what you are opening, know where it comes from. and the largest thing is to look at the sender of an e-mail. Not the nice pretty senders name that can be manipulated. Look at the actual senders e-mail address.

I have the occasional piece of malware or spyware that manages to slip through, But I do also have the knowledge to be able to remove the pesky things. Some of them are truly a pain in the ass to get removed.

Remember when... the internet was still accessed mostly using AOL.. and the risk of getting a virus was extremely low and pop up ads didn't exist? Boy do I long for those days. (Not the dialup or AOHell portion of it.)
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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by upsidedown » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:40 pm

kgschlosser wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:57 am

I have the occasional piece of malware or spyware that manages to slip through, But I do also have the knowledge to be able to remove the pesky things. Some of them are truly a pain in the ass to get removed
That is why this less smart person than yourself will still run an AV and firewall although I will now follow your advice on web addresses more diligently. I also have multiple disk image backups so if the shit does hit the fan I can reinstall and be up and running asap
kgschlosser wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:57 am
Remember when... the internet was still accessed mostly using AOL.. and the risk of getting a virus was extremely low and pop up ads didn't exist? Boy do I long for those days. (Not the dialup or AOHell portion of it.)
Ah yes before all the terrible bullying, trolling and other nasty stuff. If only we could block all that and use the internet for sharing info and helping people like this forum and many others

Stay safe both computer and human wise in these crazy Covid-19 times

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Re: Admin Rights At Login

Post by kgschlosser » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:13 am

Luckily I don't like people to much and I decided to buy a house in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado. 20 minutes to get to a gas station moving about 50mph. Needless to say I don't interact with very many physical human beings, so I have a low chance of contracting the virus. I am healthy and I take care of myself as best I can, Not overweight physically active, if I did contract it my chances are pretty high that I probably wouldn't even show a symptom.


The hovering over and looking at the address before you click is the single largest thing to keeping that virus out. Because when it comes down to it a virus scanner does not prevent your computer from getting infected, It cleans up the mess afterwards. If you request something the virus scanner is going to allow it to come in. This is why ad blockers work, it won't even display a link or a clickable that is hosted in a server that has been known to hand out problems.

I came across a nice piece of work that was written really well. It was extremely convincing. It locks you out of your computer and shows you a blue screen with a big FBI logo on it. It states that you are using a pirated version of Windows and that you need to contact the 1800 number that is provided and pay a fee to unlock it. It is really convincing, But then you have to think.. something like that if it was done by some government agency it wouldn't be the FBI. Second is making a virus is illegal. and even if you are using a pirated piece of software, the FBI making something like that is illegal for them to do. The mom of someone I know got this virus and fell for it, luckily his mom told him about it minutes after she had called them, he called me and told me about the screen she had seen. I told him to tell his mom to turn off the computer right away and to lock all of her bank accounts and credit cards. I told her to login from a machine she knows is safe and start changing as many passwords as she possibly can.

Over the next week the person had attempted to get into her accounts on more then one occasion. she could have lost everything she had. It shows that people do fall for these kinds of things all the time.
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